Skeleton Crew

Today on Art of the Cut we speak with the three editors of the Disney+/LucasFilm/Star Wars show Skeleton Crew.

Editor Andrew Eisen, ACE, has been on Art of the Cut before to talk about The Mandalorian for which he’s been nominated for two Emmys.  He’s edited feature films including The Imitation Game and A House with a Clock in its Walls and was an additional editor on Guardians of the Galaxy 2.

Terel Gibson, ACE, also edited the recently released feature film The Astronaut, as well as the feature films Sorry to Bother You and Ready or Not. He also edited episodes of the TV series Hawkeye.

Kathryn Naranjo was an editor on Stranger Things and has been an assistant editor on feature films including The Adam Project, and Free Guy, also on TV series including Halt and Catch Fire.

Terel, Andrew, and Kat, welcome to Art of the Cut. It’s so nice to have you on. I am excited to talk about Skeleton Crew. 

EISEN: Thank you. 

GIBSON: Thank you for having us. 

NARANJO: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you.

Did you have any discussions of other shows or films that you wanted to reference or have a similar tone? 

EISEN: There was no discussion in the editing room. I was on from the very beginning - before Kat and Terel started - when we were doing the storyboards. The only thing they kept bringing up was Goonies and Stranger Things, that sort of vibe. That’s what they were setting out to do.

Goonies is what I was thinking when I was watching it.

EISEN: Definitely. Goonies was definitely a strong reference for them.

Tell a little bit about temp score. Did you have any kind of library that you were working from?

GIBSON: For Kat and I, this is our first job with Lucasfilm. What’s wonderful is they really do have - preloaded in the Avid - a huge treasure trove of scores and sound libraries that you can pull from.

So the overarching note - or maybe it was our own instinct - was just to stay away from the John Williams stuff because that’s sort of canon and separate.

This is a new world and a new adventure with these kids that don’t know that Star Wars is real.

I kept referring that the temp is: “Star Wars, not Star Wars.” Those things that give you that kind of tone and feeling of wonderment that bring you back to that era, but are not the sort of traditional themes you’d find in the Star Wars movie.

So nothing was off limits. I think anything from Raiders to Harry Potter and anything in between was good paint for us to use, as just a vibe.

And all the episodes also are very different. I think really the material and the episodes themselves dictated what we gravitated towards in terms of temp. 

Did you feel like you had to watch any of the rest of the universe TV shows specifically that Lucas films had been put out recently?

GIBSON: I had watched them just ‘cause I’m a huge fan. I don’t think it was a prerequisite at all. This is so different. I think that was definitely what we’re sending out to achieve.

That was something that was just like a completely different sort of slice of the Star Wars universe. I think it was helpful kind of treating it at its own thing rather than drafting upon anything that came before it.

Skeleton Crew editors Terel Gibson, ACE, Andrew S. Eisen, ACE, and Kathryn Naranjo

I did notice a hint of a theme at the very end of the second episode…

EISEN: …when the key is floating through the air. They did decide to go with a little bit of the theme for that, but that was a very unique situation.

It’s funny because we temped very similarly when we were doing the first season of Mandalorian, then composer Ludwig Göransson presented a completely different vision of the music. Then we started using that to temp with, and it fell into place so beautifully.

It was like it was exactly the right vibe for the show. So I’m glad that we abandoned a lot of that actiony, Batman, Harry Potter, more obscure Star Wars stuff that doesn’t necessarily have all the themes.

The vibe changed entirely. In this case though, we had Mick Giacchino doing the score and he did a great job but he also didn’t veer too far off from our temp in terms of the tone of it.

I think we got the tone right when we were temping. I think everyone was happy in that temp phase. We worked on it for a long time before he even got involved. 

I would love to talk to Terel and Kat about approach. When you sit down to a new set of dailies, you walk in the morning, what do you do? What is the way that you approach a fresh scene? 

NARANJO: I watch all the dailies. I go through and put locators and mark  good moments in each take going through the script. Sometimes you could tell with camera moves what the director’s trying to achieve. It’s just watching it all;  absorbing it, then putting it together.

Avid timeline screenshot, episode 108

Are you a selects reel person or do you watch the individual clips? 

NARANJO: Oh, no, I’ll watch everything.

I apologize. I shouldn’t have said “selects reel.” More like a “KEM roll.” A lot of people will simply link all the takes in one long timeline, or they’ll put everything from a setup in a timeline. 

NARANJO: I have a bin layout where I have the group clips set up a certain way. I watch both cameras - or all three cameras, however many cameras there are. I watch every take just to see what’s happening in every camera 

And just dive straight into cutting it linearly?

NARANJO: Correct.

What about you, Terel? 

GIBSON: Same way, honestly. Same exact way. I know some editors like to watch selects first, or there’s a ton of people who work from the last take all the way in that direction - reverse order.

I like to go in a linear way ‘cause I like to see the director working it out from that first take where it’s like, “Okay, here’s the rehearsal” Because it’s digital they can shoot everything and you get everything, which is great advantage. Sometimes there’s gold in there, sometimes not.

But as you’re going through successive takes, you can see the course corrections and it feels like you’re almost having a dialogue with a director and the crew and the camera department as they’re refining moves and performance. So generally I’ll do that. 

I also do the same thing that Kat with locators. I save a special locator for things that surprise me, because we are the first audience member, so anything that makes me lean in or feels like it’s a piece of gold I generally put a green locator for those things.

Then when I start building a scene, I’ll try to get as many of those moments as possible into the first pass. I always feel that watching dailies is a bit like medicine. You have to be really disciplined and not rush through that process. It’s so important.

For me, the crew has put a lot of time and effort to capturing all of this, so we need to respect that and watch everything that they’ve done. Don’t be too eager to jump into cutting a scene. I get very nervous if I don’t feel like I know everything. If I know everything, I’m making an informed decision.

EISEN: Yeah. Like if you start putting it together, and the next thing you know: “Oh, there’s that F setup that I didn’t realize we had that replaces all of this!”

GIBSON: Yeah, It just unravels everything! 

EISEN: I work the same way. I watch all the dailies   I put locators on things that I like. I used to have my assistant do string-outs line-by-line, then I would take that and I would pare that down to my own select reel.

I didn’t feel the need to do that this time because this is the first time that I’ve used ScriptSync. I found ScriptSync to be an amazing tool, and it’s the same as having the string outs.

You could just jump to things so much faster. If a performance or whatever didn’t feel right after I put it together, I’d use ScriptSync to review and find a better one. I can’t tell you how many times the circled take would be one of the last two takes out of nine or ten.

Then I’m editing and I put in take two just ‘cause I think take two was way better than those. [Showrunner] John Watts would agree. We would sit down together and he’d say, “Let’s watch all the takes backwards from ten back to one.” 

And he’d say, “Let’s use take one. Take one was the most natural take.” It was the most spontaneous take. So I don’t go by circled takes. I use them as a guide. Sometimes it’s the only good take, but I definitely watch everything and we had enough time to be able to do that - to just really sift through it all. 

What’s the opinion on ScriptSync? I know a lot of people that love it as a tool to work with a director, but don’t feel like it’s something that you want to cut with at the beginning because it breaks up the material too much. 

EISEN: I don’t use it at the beginning, but for myself - before the director comes in - I use ScriptSync to go back and review lines: “Did I get the best performance for this?” I’ll just go reassure myself that: “yes, I did,” or “no, I didn’t.” 

I just found it to be a very valuable tool and the latest version is even better. I think that it takes a lot of the onus off the assistants ‘cause there’s AI that basically breaks it all down for them. Hopefully that’s where the AI stops in our world.

Exactly! Did you find that you were dropping scenes or having to kill your darlings during this show or were you pretty much sticking to the script?

EISEN: The first pass always sticks to the script. Everything that’s in the script: just put it all in there. You don’t wanna eliminate things before they’ve had a chance to see them.

But within short order - whether it was due to budget constraints or story constraints - there was a lot that landed on the cutting room floor. The episodes - two or three of them were in the 40 minute range, then the rest were in like a 30 minute range - were all at least 15 minutes longer at some point or if not longer.

Towards the end the showrunners just started getting really brutal about wanting to just make this thing tight. If we didn’t need something, let’s just ditch it. 

GIBSON: Yeah, we definitely killed some darlings. There’s no question. There were some great scenes that I wish just existed somewhere. I miss the old DVD extras days because then people could see that material and what we cut out.

There were some really great scenes - much to our showrunners’ credit – that got cut. They are very keen on pacing. They’re very keen on making sure that there’s no fat - there’s nothing that’s not progressing the story.

So sometimes you really do have to be really ruthless and really challenge the material and make sure that we’re valuing the audience’s time. 

All three of us worked so well together. We communicated so much. There moments that we had to decide whether or not the scene that you were tasked with belongs in your episode.

There was definitely moments where one episode ended at one particular place and that got refined and maybe it ended earlier and then Andrew or Kat would inherit that scene, and vice versa.

There was a lot of that back and forth. You never want to be too locked into a certain way of doing things because of running time. 

You’re not really so beholden to hitting a certain number as you could be maybe in traditional episodic television. Here it’s just about telling the best story possible.

So all that killing your darling stuff was not to hit a specific time, it was for story pacing?

EISEN: Yeah, pacing and in some cases budgets, like there were some sequences, especially I can think of one in 106 - the scene where the kids lose their ship and then it turns into this chrysalis and becomes a whole new ship - but in getting back the ship, there was a whole sequence where they have this big fight with a bunch of droids and it just turned out it was gonna be so expensive and time consuming that they decided, “Let’s just pull it out.”

I watched it again recently and it works perfectly without it. It was extraneous now that I think about it. But I put a lot of time and effort into that one in previs: the scene when Fern and Neil are climbing the ladder, then they see their ship being dragged away by these garbage ships taking it to the dump.

I made a giant moment out of climbing the ladder, seeing their ship, and having to get there in time and making this big, exciting moment.

They loved it, but the story just needs to keep moving forward faster. We can’t take time with this moment. So one of my darlings didn’t go away completely, but it got cut back.

In the old days, I used to get very protective of my work, and if a director would say, “Let’s change it.” I’d say, “Why?” But in my older years, I let that go completely, because you have to just be malleable in the cutting room.

Everyone’s got opinions. Ultimately, the showrunners or the director - whoever’s gonna have the ultimate say - you just have to let things go. Even if you strongly believe you can say why you believe in it, ultimately you have to just let things go. And generally I find the smart guys in the room are right. 

There’s some wisdom right there.

Editor Andrew Eisen, ACE

EISEN: It’s amazing to me that they’re willing to throw it away. I’ve worked with directors who actually won’t throw stuff like that away that does need to go.

So I’m very appreciative of [showrunners] John Watts and Chris Ford, who are able to see the forest through the trees and say, “Just because we shot it doesn’t mean we have to use it. Let’s just keep this thing moving.” 

Kat, tell me a little bit about the collaboration that was able to happen between you editors. I’ve been able to work with multiple editors before and I love having the interaction. Were you able to go into each other’s rooms, watch each other’s episodes, speak into each other’s projects? 

NARANJO: We actually shared a project. All our episodes were in one project. So it was very easy to see what everyone was doing.

Terel and Andrew were really very helpful and very inviting. We all were able to talk to each other and discuss what was going on in each other’s episodes and what problems we might be having or what John Watts likes, what he doesn’t like.

I thought it was a very inviting and collaborative environment, which was great.

GIBSON: The show is all prevised too. We make this show multiple times. That’s the other thing. Getting back to Andrew’s earlier point about killing darlings: you’ve lived with it through boards, you’ve lived it through previs.

You’ve shot it and you’ve been through every step of that. You’ve gone up the food chain and it’s really been challenged the entire time. By the time we start shooting you think, “Okay, we’ve cracked everything.”

Then something magical happens when shooting and you’ve gotta make the show again. Those things you thought were completely bulletproof are not, so you’re constantly refining and because of the schedule and the way they shot it, we each had hands on other episodes at different stages.

EISEN: I think I handed off the previs to you, but I had done the boards on episodes 1, 2, 4, 6, and 8, I believe.

GIBSON: Andrew was first in and was minding the store like you wouldn’t believe before help finally came.

EISEN: I was so grateful and thankful when Terel and Kat came on ‘cause it took a lot off me. I was very happy to pass it on and see the direction that they took it in. 

I didn’t know the show was so thoroughly prevised. Talk to me about that previs process. What was the schedule for previs and cutting that? 

GIBSON: Very tight. For me that was in some ways one of the tougher parts of the process because there are other shows at LucasFilm that are going through this process as well, so you’re very much beholden to the availability of the previs animators’ schedule in terms of when these episodes have to get through previs so that they can load up scenes in The Volume for shooting the virtual stage aspect of it.

Generally speaking, you’re refining the entire time - getting it ready to screen for execs and for Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni.

No matter what you did - as soon as you got done with a version - you’d get an email and the script would change. Literally to the minute. “Yes! I’ve got it! I have a version ready to show!” Then you’d get a new script that would be different.”

You always felt like you didn’t have quite enough time. Then the next episode needed to come in based on the shooting schedule, so the other ones had to get finished.

You really do make each episode three times, top to bottom. We all do our own sound design and our own temp score, so you already have a template there so that when you do get to live action, you don’t have to rebuild all of that stuff.

So you’re actually repopulating live action and a lot of the hard effects that still will work great from the prevised version of the show. I’d love to show the previs to people. It’s a little “uncanny valley,” ‘cause the people’s mouths don’t move - but you could totally show it. You can tell if it’s playing or not. It’s really cool.

Kat, is this your first time working with The Volume and do you think it helps to have The Volume instead of - say - a green screen?

NARANJO: Yeah. This is my first time. It helps because it puts you in that environment. They set up a stage with the props and everything, then you have scenery behind them and the characters are there as opposed to a green screen. The actors are seeing it, and they’re able to act to it, as opposed to the green screen. So it was really incredible to see and it worked so well. 

EISEN: There’s always imperfections in The Volume and things like always get cleaned up. Virtually every single shot in the show has a visual effect. Something is done to it - whether it’s cleaning up seams that are noticeable from on the stage or things like that - but compared to The Mandalorian and Boba Fett shows, these had actually a little bit more blue screen,than those shows. And we shot a little bit more on the back lot than we do on these shows as well. Even on the back lot, they would put blue behind them. It was a bit of a mix, but it was still mostly Volume. The Volume was very impressive. 

I’ve gotta ask about the famous Star Wars wipes. Are they all scripted or is there a rule to when you put in those wipes, or is it just whenever you feel? 

GIBSON: The latter. Passage of time, definitely. They’re not arbitrary. They are meant to indicate to the audience in the way that you would use a dissolve that time has passed or you’re going to a new location. I found generally that the action dictates the type of wipe you use.

If a character’s moving left to right, then on the B side of it somebody’s moving left to right, then a horizontal wipe works, or if the camera’s coming down, then a wipe from top to bottom or bottom to top works. If they’re still in the center, maybe an iris wipe of some sort, but you feel those things.

None of it’s scripted. 

EISEN: We just throw ’em in. Sometimes we have one too many or we don’t need one now, so let’s drop that one. We got to choose our wipes and they were rarely touched. I did my circle wipe in episode 106. No one bothered me about that. They just went with it.

One of the questions I had about dialogue - and I have this with every kind of fantastic show - whether it’s Lord of the Rings or sci-fi stuff - is that one of the things that I think editors are so good at is detecting truthfulness. But in such a fantastic universe is truthfulness harder to detect?

GIBSON: I don’t think so. You’re still exploring human beings and you’re exploring the human condition. Particularly with this show, because they’re also coming from a place of not knowing, and approaching the experience the way maybe an audience member would in some cases.

All of us as editors have a really tuned BS detector – the performances we buy, that we don’t buy - whether a performance feels a little bit arch or a little bit broad - keeping things grounded. You also have the safeguards of the people around you who are trying to build consensus.

These kids are going through this unique experience and they’re all fantastic actors. That they’re responding in a naturalistic way is a taste thing. It’s one of those things that you just trust your gut. Trust what you buy. I always gravitate towards that. I always find too, when I go through dailies and I use ScriptSync to double check myself - very rarely do I think, “Oh, that’s better” because I’m treating it like an audience member.

I’m responding to things that I buy. So very rarely is something better per se it’s usually just a lateral move or something that I don’t buy as much. 

EISEN: We had scenes where the kids are very emotional. I thought they pulled it off great. If one take didn’t feel right, there were always plenty of takes to look at. John Watts directed two of the episodes that I did, and Bryce Dallas Howard directed episode six.

I found that we got plenty of takes - always at least 10 takes per setup - and with Bryce significantly more because she’s an actor and she would really focus on the acting and the line reads. She would just do them over and over again until she felt satisfied. That doesn’t mean that the last take was best, that just means she was exploring options. 

NARANJO: Even if it’s not multiple takes, within a take they’ll do a series that they’ll do over and over again, which I find really helpful ‘cause you can see in real time what they’re trying to get from the actors or what the kids are trying to do and what’s more emotional. I like when they do series. 

You’re listening to the director between takes in the series? 

NARANJO: Yeah, it’s so helpful. 

GIBSON: I do, absolutely. It’s better than being on set. You feel like you’re having that dialogue. It’s great when a director gives a note and it’s actually what you’ve been thinking. We’re watching it and we’re like rooting for the material. You’re thinking, “Okay, are we gonna get this scene?”

You could feel the clock ticking. You’re at take seven now. “Okay. I hope they pull this one out!” Then they get in there, they roll up their sleeves. And all the directors have different styles too, which is fun. They’re all accomplished in their own way.

They all have their unique approaches. Some allow for more play and improvisation than others. All of them are gonna ultimately get the scene, but it’s great having that ability to actually see them just saunter into frame, give their notes.

NARANJO: I don’t know if you guys do it, but sometimes I’ll even try to match out to the master audio. Usually we just have the mixed down audio track. So I’ll try to match out to all the ISOs and I’ll put it full blast so that I can hear what the director is saying to them. 

GIBSON: Maybe we should put a lav on the directors. Maybe that’s a new thing we should ask for. 

NARANJO: Yeah!

I was about to tell you that’s what they did on The Creator. 

GIBSON: Really? Honestly, that’s more helpful than script notes. Sure, a circled take is helpful. We’re panning for gold. That can come from anywhere. A circled take doesn’t mean much to me. It’s a starting point.

The directors are often so busy, we’re not watching dailies together, so you really do rely on that dialogue from just eavesdropping. 

I love the production design in this show. Talk to me about cutting out to those wides that the fans will love of some cool location or set.

GIBSON: That’s Star Wars, right? We’re making shows for the small screen, but we’re treating them like they’re for the big screen. It’s really giving that cinematic feel and when you see a shot that blows you away.

There are shots I would love to hold forever. Like in episode three, when they go to Kh’ymm’s moon, there’s a beautiful, like David Lean shot of them over the craters of the moon, walking. That was all Volume and that just looked fantastic.

Gimme more of this! That was just absolute gold. Oftentimes it’s about the composition. It’s about what the scene needs emotionally.

You also don’t want to be in a position where you are lingering in things because it’s a cool shot. A cool shot is not the sole reason for having it in there. Cool does not win. Story wins. Character wins over cool. Every time. 

EISEN: Our production designers, Oliver Scholl and Doug Chang are old Star Wars veterans, so every little aspect of the ships and everything had to pass through him and had to pass muster In terms of: is this a Star Wars thing?

Definitely in previs stages we were altering the design of things to make sure that they matched the Star Wars universe, even though we were in a different place than most of the Star Wars we’re familiar with.

Avid timeline screenshot showing the sound tracks.

Speaking of the Star Wars universe, I think sound - especially for some of the fantastic worlds - how much sound helps to sell them. Can you talk about what you were doing in your picture cuts to flesh that world out sonically? 

NARANJO: Sound is so important to the editor’s cut and helps with everything. I treat sound as if I’m the sound designer, like “This is the final.” I want it to sound as perfect as possible.

It’s very important to maybe even exaggerate sounds like the spaceship when it’s coming down from warp speed to make sure that you hear it arrive.

Even if it might be silent in space, I would make sure there’s a sound there. Sound design is just so important with any film or TV show that you would work on. 

EISEN: The beautiful thing is we have access to the entire Star Wars sound library, for the most part. On The Mandalorian we begged to get them to share the sound library with us, and they did. So that’s just been passed on from show to show.

We mine from all of those sounds that have been around forever. Then sometimes we design our own sounds. We’ll combine sounds or I’ll take a sound and reverse it or speed it up or pitch it or do things to make it a little bit different than what everyone’s used to hearing.

We are presenting this constantly to studio heads - to our showrunners - and all of us wanted to make sure this was as fleshed out as possible. We have such a short time to do the mix on these shows. It’s not like a feature where you have months maybe to do a mix.

It’s all done in days, so our template is very important to help Skywalker to get there faster when it comes to doing their sound design.

They contribute and create new sounds, and they do an amazing job, but we definitely provide a template that is mostly from their own library, so it’s not that far removed. They don’t have to worry that it’s not a Star Wars sound. It all fits into the world. 

GIBSON: Skywalker Sound doesn’t happen until the very end. We have to carry this show for years through reviews and we’re selling it and sound is an important component of selling everything, because it is stage work.

For example, on the pirate port, I remember hearing their footsteps on a wood floor and thinking “This is gonna really take you out of the world. There’s no way I want to be hearing the wooden planks.”

It is our job to make sure that we believe that they’re not at Manhattan Beach Studios - that they’re on a far-off planet somewhere. So sound is one of the greatest tools you have to sell that.

Andrew set such a great template for us, it was really nice to be able to just steal from him.

EISEN: We’re starting in storyboards. All we get is a bunch of pictures that we we animate ourselves to make the move, but we also make them come alive with sound. Sound is crucial in those early phases. When we’re doing screenings, you can’t just show them a bunch of boards strung together.

It has to feel like it’s come alive. I give a lot of credit to my assistant Dave Matusek and the other two assistants as well. Matt Willard and Kate Prescott. They really were instrumental in helping us put together these soundscapes. 

Did they also get the typical assistant job of doing the previously-ons?

EISEN: Matt Willard took on that task. Mostly he just jumped on it. They were asking for volunteers.

GIBSON: Near the end, the pressure is on and you’re trying to finish episodes. Inevitably somebody remembers, “Oh yeah! We need previously-ons.” So it’s the 11th hour. Matt Willard and Kate did an amazing job.

It’s an art form too, it really takes a very specific skill set and there’s a lot of notes and going back and forth with those things, so for them to take that off our plates was wildly helpful.

I wanted to talk a little bit about micro-pacing. 

GIBSON: It’s a rhythm thing, right?

NARANJO: I had a micro-pacing thing I could talk about in episode 107 with Jod pulling the lightsaber on the kids and just laying into them - now he’s really evil. He lays into Fern saying, “You’re not a leader. You’re a bully.”

It was just sitting on that and hearing him tell Wim, he’s just a scared boy. Letting that sit and letting the audience absorb how it’s affecting the kids and how Jod looks when he’s saying it.

They thought it was really important just to sit on it and let the emotions come through. 

GIBSON: That’s a great scene 

EISEN: It’s one of the most powerful ones.

GIBSON: I had a lot of episodes that were front-loaded, so I had the kinder, gentler version of Jod. It’s so effective and so heartbreaking because he really does kind of put the screws to all of the kids and it really touches on each one of their insecurities. He turns from being Han Solo to Darth Vader there.

When you’re landing moments always look at when do you hold a little longer than you would normally. I think that’s a rhythm thing. A scene has a certain musicality to it, but then taking the time to really button a scene or just let something linger so that it has resonance is so important for me.

Not what they’re saying, but what they’re not saying. In some cases it communicates to the audience some subtext that there’s something going on maybe or where you’re cutting to a reaction, where you’re holding, how long you’re there are all the tools of the trade. 

You take a script that’s very good and elevate it even more because we now have the tools of juxtaposition and rhythm and deciding how we want to articulate the story and how we wanna work our way around a particular moment so that we have resonance with the audience.

The other micro pacing thing that I wanted to talk about is tension. There’s a bunch of places where something’s happening that’s very tense, and you’re trying to stretch that rubber band of tension out before you release it. Maybe one of you could talk about a scene that you had where you were trying to see how far you could pull the tension out. 

EISEN: The directors provide all the colors of the palette then it’s our job to do the painting and place the colors in all the right places so that it pops for you. It took a bit of time to find the proper rhythm and find the proper looks and things like that and where to place them in order to get that scene to really feel like it was building up.

I would love to hear from Terel and Kat about a scene that was similar to that: something you were juggling that either you’re proud of or that was a difficult challenge in assembling. 

NARANJO: For me, a difficult scene was in episode four where the kids are sent out ahead of this Hattan army, into the unknown and they don’t know what’s coming and they’re scared and they’re just walking on pins and needles with their weapons in hand and it’s just building.

There’s just fog that they see ahead and cutting to Neel - the little elephant boy - talking to himself and trying to pump himself up and getting the reaction from the other kids looking around and cutting to the unknown, then the soldiers and just building, building, building that moment to this big release where it’s just Jod as the fog clears and he’s there to save the day.

Originally, that scene was gonna have a song, which was a lot of work, but that was one of those killing your babies spots. It took a lot of work to build that scene. That was the episode the Daniels directed.

They had a very clear idea of what they wanted. Watts had his own ideas. It’s just working with directors and working with the showrunners. It ended up really good at the end and I’m very proud of it now.

GIBSON: My big tension scene - the one that comes to mind - is in 105, when Jod turns, basically. They get to Rennod’s layer. It’s been an adventure. It’s a very Goonies-type episode, but this is the moment where you realize what Jod’s really up to. He discovers the myth of their planet is actually real and there is treasure there.

They did a wonderful thing - and this is just really a testament to Jude Law’s performance more than anything I did - but he did this thing where you saw him listen to that and the kids are soft focused in the background and he realizes that it’s real.

So he’s playing to the camera and to the audience, basically, that he’s changing - he’s become Gollum almost. He’s been completely seduced by this treasure and you can hear them in the background and they’re saying, “We still have a deal.” And he’s not saying anything. We pause and we hold longer on his face.

And Jude just does this sort of subtle thing where you just see him go from this lovable sort of rogue Han Solo figure to what he becomes in the later episodes: just a scoundrel, basically. So that moment to him then challenging Fern to a duel to take charge of the ship - the tension there with all the kids is where it really pivots, tonally. That was one of those things where you realize “This HAS to work!

People have to buy in.” And it’s not necessarily all on the page. It’s really the strength of the performances and your ability to hold tension and make sure you’re communicating to the audience - that you’ve given the clear argument - that you’ve laid the track.

Of course it feels inevitable. It feels like this couldn’t have gone in the other way at this moment. So trying to calibrate that was just fun - just a really fun scene to cut. It’s always great when you have such amazing actors and great camera work and a really talented director that gives you all the paint - as Andy said before - to really construct something that’s hopefully very memorable.

I would love to hear about the interplay between a director on a TV series - which is different than a director on a feature film - and the showrunner. It sounds like because of the length that this went, that the director was much more involved than a typical TV director might be. How did you juggle the desires between the showrunner and the people that were directing the episodes?

EISEN: I found that the showrunners were very respectful of the directors. First of all - in my case - I had [showrunner] John Watts directing two of the episodes that I edited.

But in the case of Bryce Dallas Howard it’s the same for past series that I had worked on with these guys as well, where they are very respectful of the director and the directors get an actual proper director’s cut.

We spend a month or two months with them. The showrunners may weigh in from time to time and work together with us, but they are definitely given their due. It’s not just four days and you’re gone. They get to really work out their cuts as much as they want.

GIBSON: You don’t hire directors like these and not give them the space to play. That was always the plan: “Let’s hire a murderer’s row of directors and let them play in this sandbox.”

I think they did a really great job of giving them certain guardrails here and there, but ultimately each episode has a little bit of what they do in them: a little bit of their flair, a little bit of their own unique perspective, and I think that’s what makes the show really sing.

EISEN: Ultimately, the directors ended up leaving when their schedules got too busy. They had their next thing going on. No one was really kicking them out.

They must’ve been part of the process of the previs, right? 

EISEN: Absolutely. 

GIBSON: That’s when they start. Yeah, that’s a big part ‘cause they’re blocking, basically. They have to know what they’re going to do for The Volume. So they’re blocking all of the previs. Andrew, they’re not really involved in boards as much?

EISEN: No. Not at all. They come in after they watch the boards, then they start working on previs from there where they put on these headsets and they’re with the production designers and they’re with the cinematographers and they’re actually going through it.

The director - he or she - gets to create the shot, the angles and everything, and everyone can see through their goggles what the director’s vision is, but they’re creating shots in previs that then get spit out to us and then also out to ILM to create those backgrounds and those angles.

Kat, any last words on working with the directors and how that process went? 

NARANJO: Everybody has their own style. The Daniels were meticulous about what they wanted. They come from a VFX background, so they were really keen on what they shot and what the intention was.

Episode 104 mainly was blue screen.

It was all on the back lot for the most part. So they were very aware of what should be there and what they intended which was really helpful working with them and get understanding what they were trying to do. Then [director] Lee Isaac Chung was so smart.

He had already worked on The Mandalorian, so he came from a Star Wars background and he knew exactly what he wanted to do and he was just so smart and so kind.

Then [showrunner] Watts came in after them. Like Andrew said, he was very respectful of their cuts. He did what he wanted after, but it was pretty much in line with what they had done.

Thank you all for joining me on Art of the Cut and talking to us about Skeleton Crew. It was a really enjoyable chat. Thank you. 

EISEN: Thank you. It’s an honor. Thanks for having us, Steve.

GIBSON: Thank you. 

NARANJO: Yes. We appreciate it.